Welcome to another podcast conversation of Beyond Barriers, a community dedicated to promoting accessibility awareness through discussions with accessibility leaders around the world. Today, we are honored to have Donna Bungard, Senior Accessibility Program Manager for Marketing at Indeed, as our guest. Donna shares her journey and Indeed's approach to disability inclusion, emphasizing the importance of making accessibility a normalized, integrated part of business culture.
You can listen to the audio or read the transcript below.
Growing Up with Accessibility as a Norm
Brian: "Tell me a bit about yourself, Donna. What led you into accessibility?"
Donna: "I’ve been in agency life for over 20 years. I’m the only person in my family who doesn’t have a significant disability—mobility, visual, hearing, you name it. So, for me, making sure things were accessible wasn’t some grand calling; it was just practical. It wasn’t about being a ‘good person,’ it was just a normal part of life.”
Breaking Down Barriers with Inclusive Language
Brian: "Something I love about your approach, Donna, is the way you communicate accessibility naturally. You started by describing your surroundings—the teal chair you’re sitting in, for example."
Donna: "It's about making accessibility natural. The more we normalize our language around disability, the easier it becomes to build systems that lower or eliminate barriers."
Learning from the Community
Donna: "I’m constantly learning from the community. I follow influencers like Keeley Kat Wells, Deborah Rue, and Jessica Lu—these individuals keep me grounded and challenge my unconscious biases. Even with my personal background, I sometimes realize I have assumptions I need to address."
Brian: "That kind of continuous learning is so important. I joined Wally last year, and my understanding has evolved so much through community interactions."
Inclusivity Starts from the Top
Brian: "So, Donna, how does Indeed approach disability inclusion on a company-wide level?"
Donna: "At Indeed, there’s strong leadership support. They’re open to learning and making necessary changes as new insights arise. Having top-down commitment helps accelerate bottom-up momentum, creating space for accessibility conversations across departments."
Building Accessibility into Every Department
Brian: "Is there a specific department that should be responsible for accessibility, or is it everyone’s job?"
Donna: "It depends on the company’s size and structure. For small companies, maybe the CEO or an art director oversees it. In larger companies like Indeed, it’s a collaborative effort across departments. Accessibility shouldn’t be siloed; it should be embedded into every function, whether it’s AI ethics, hiring, or product design."
Overcoming Silos in Large Organizations
Brian: "What challenges have you faced with cross-functional collaboration?"
Donna: "People often get so focused on their own tasks that they miss what others are doing. I make it a point to be active on internal Slack channels and to reach out to people working on similar projects. It’s important to ask questions and keep communication open, whether you’re extroverted like me or prefer to work asynchronously."
The Role of Basic Education and Reducing Fear of Mistakes
Donna: "Many people hesitate to ask questions because they’re afraid of getting it wrong. We need to create spaces where people can learn without fear of judgment. It’s okay to make mistakes as long as you’re willing to learn and grow. Normalizing these conversations is essential for scaling accessibility."
Skills-First Hiring and Inclusive Practices
Brian: "Walk me through Indeed’s hiring practices as they relate to accessibility."
Donna: "We focus on skills-first hiring, which minimizes biases. Job descriptions often need a refresh—does a role really require lifting 15 pounds, or phone screening? These outdated practices can exclude people unnecessarily. By rethinking job requirements and showing people with disabilities doing their jobs in our marketing, we’re working to make hiring more inclusive."
Leveraging AI for Accessibility—With Caution
Donna: "AI is revolutionizing how people work. Tools like Apple’s Voice allow someone losing their voice to maintain it digitally. But AI has biases too. When tested, AI-generated images of autistic people were almost always white males in their twenties, looking unhappy. We need to ensure that people—not just AI—are guiding these solutions ethically."
Brian: "That’s a powerful example of how bias can seep into technology. It’s crucial to have humans steering these tools to keep accessibility at the forefront."
Making Disability Part of Everyday Conversations
Brian: "Donna, any final thoughts?"
Donna: "Accessibility is simply disability inclusion in action. The more we talk about it and share our experiences, the closer we get to creating universally accessible environments. Everyone has a connection to disability in some way, and by building on these human connections, we make accessibility part of normal, everyday conversations."
Brian: "Well said. Your insights today are invaluable, and I hope more companies adopt Indeed’s holistic approach. Thank you, Donna."
