In this episode of Beyond Barriers, host Brian Gavin sits down with Giorgio Natali, a pioneer in the world of digital accessibility. From his early encounters with Flash technology to championing inclusivity at major corporations like Amazon and Capital One, Giorgio has devoted his career to making digital products accessible to everyone. In this candid conversation, he shares key experiences, from teaching accessibility to students with disabilities to the impact AI could have on accessibility efforts worldwide. Join us as we explore Giorgio's journey, insights, and vision for a more inclusive future in tech.
Curiosity, Teaching, and Transformative Moments
How did you first get into accessibility and grow into the leader you are today?
Giorgio: "The first time that I was exposed to accessibility was out of pure curiosity. I was playing with Flash in the early 2000s, and one of the development panels caught my eye—it was about accessibility. I learned how to improve tab navigation, labeling, and hierarchy, which got me excited enough to write an article. When it was published by the Macromedia Italian user group, I started receiving questions on accessibility. I quickly realized I was one of the few people talking about it."
"My turning point came when a nonprofit organization in Italy asked me to teach web development to a class of students with different abilities. These students faced major challenges just to use a laptop or even navigate a screen. Their resilience and enthusiasm inspired me to prioritize accessibility in my work. One morning, I greeted a student who could barely walk and asked how he was doing. He replied, 'I’m doing fantastic, Giorgio.' That mindset had a huge impact on me. Now, I wake up every day with a positive attitude, grateful for the privilege to make a difference."
Brian: "That’s powerful, Giorgio. It shows how those early, personal experiences can drive passion and purpose in accessibility."
Building Accessibility into Everyday Practices
How do you make accessibility a priority in your roles across different organizations?
Giorgio: "At Amazon, I remember an incident while we were launching our first 62 Japanese Kindle titles. Two of the books couldn’t support accessibility due to content structure, and I spent hours convincing the team to exclude them from the release. It was about ensuring that even one user with disabilities could read our content. Over time, I found myself advocating for accessibility as an entry-level manager, then later at Capital One and Firefox, always pushing for it to be part of our workflows."
Why is integrating accessibility metrics important, and how has it impacted your teams?
Giorgio: "At Capital One, I asked managers to report accessibility bugs every week during our business reviews. This metric became a priority, and my teams soon developed their own knowledge and tools to meet it. One team member, Amber, led a hackathon project that created basic accessibility checks for web applications at build time—an accomplishment that gained recognition from senior leadership. These checks eventually expanded across Android, iOS, and web, blocking pull requests if they introduced accessibility bugs. That’s how you make an impact: by embedding accessibility into the development process and making it visible and actionable."
Brian: "Metrics can be such a motivator, and seeing accessibility bugs decline must have been incredibly rewarding."
AI’s Role in the Future of Accessibility
What do you see as the biggest disruption coming to accessibility, especially with AI?
Giorgio: "I believe GenAI will be a game-changer. Today, we have tools to detect accessibility issues, but users don’t always know how to fix them. GenAI could guide developers with specific suggestions and severity insights. It could even help explain the issue’s impact on different users, making it easier to prioritize and address accessibility at the code level. Also, improved AI-driven captioning and translation tools could make content more universally accessible. Imagine if developers didn’t even need to consider accessibility after code is written because the system is already aligned with accessibility standards—it would completely lower the barrier."
Brian: "Absolutely, Giorgio. Integrating GenAI could shift accessibility to a proactive process instead of a final check before release."
Overcoming Systemic Challenges and Raising Awareness
What are some of the biggest issues facing accessibility today?
Giorgio: "The lack of investment in accessibility is a big issue. Many companies think having a dedicated accessibility team is enough, but they rarely check if it's adequately resourced or if its efforts are impactful. And beyond investment, there’s the challenge of representation. It’s rare to see people with disabilities, like visually impaired engineers, within these organizations. Without their voices, companies miss out on direct feedback that could drive meaningful change."
Can you share an example of how lack of accessibility can impact users?
Giorgio: "A friend of mine who heads accessibility at LinkedIn once shared a story about a banking app. When the app released a new update, it had an accessibility bug that prevented him from logging in, leaving him without access to his account for three weeks. Now, he knew who to contact and was able to get it fixed, but what about other users who don’t have his expertise or contacts? It underscores the need for consistent testing and metrics—businesses often lack both when it comes to accessibility."
Brian: "Real-life examples like that are reminders of the importance of robust testing and metrics. Companies need to hear these stories to understand the urgency of accessibility issues."
Inspiring Change Through Advocacy and Measurable Impact
What role does advocacy play in building accessibility awareness?
Giorgio: "Lack of awareness is the biggest enemy of accessibility. Even if you’re the only one in the room talking about it, don’t shy away. Engage with the community, learn their needs, and talk about it openly. It’s worth it."
Have you faced setbacks in your accessibility efforts?
Giorgio: "Definitely. One of my biggest challenges has been working at Mozilla, where the accessibility team is so small that it’s hard to take on impactful initiatives. We don’t have enough resources to host large-scale events like hackathons that could drive significant change. Accessibility needs advocates at every level, but it also requires tangible investments from the top down."
Conclusion
Giorgio Natali’s career is a testament to the power of passion, persistence, and personal experiences in driving accessibility forward. From his initial curiosity with Flash to his impact at companies like Amazon, Capital One, and Firefox, he has continually pushed for a world where technology is inclusive for all. In his conversation with Brian, Giorgio reminds us of the crucial role AI could play in the future and the need for metrics, awareness, and advocacy to make accessibility an integral part of every development process. His journey shows that every small step toward inclusivity can make a big difference in the lives of others.
